Ask Tina: Why can’t girls make the first move?

Hello my name is–take 2. Hello my name is
Tina McGooglebury and umm–take 3. Hello friends. If you really are friends. Honestly I doubt
that many of you are. Take 13, lucky 13. I am a second-wave radical feminist, also a
motivational speaker and all around dating expert. Whodoloo-whatsits. Yes. Take 26. First things first, let’s revisit last Ask
Tina in which I got quite an interesting question from someone calling himself Ariphon. ‘Why
do you think there aren’t any male progress movements out there? That focus on changing
the societal norms for male gender roles, using privilege to fight for equality of all
genders and ethnicities and broadening the ideas of who is a man, whether they are gay,
bi, asexual, trans, non cis or whatever else is out there. Do you think that such a movement
would work?’ I’ve got a quick little, little phone call to make. Hello, is this the, the
definition of words line. Yes. Is changing the societal norms for male gender roles and
using privilege to fight for equality of all genders and broadening the definition of who
is a man whether they are gay, bi, asexual, trans, cis or whatever else is out there,
uh does that fall under the definition of feminism? Yes? Thank you, I think I have a
youthful voice as well. The great news that I can deliver to you Ariphon marathon is that
your movement is there and it is under the feminism umbrella. If we uplift and improve
lives for girls and women we must do the same thing with men and boys too, it all works
together. For that reason, people say well I’d rather call myself a humanist. I’m not
for the femmes, I’m for humans. Okay if we’re going down that logic line then wouldn’t that
mean that racists are for all races? Sexists are really just pro sex? I mean I’m sure some
sexists are very pro-sex. And you wanted to know do you think such a movement would work?
Well. Hmmm. Ummmm. Some would say no. Equality has progressed. So I’d say yes. Does that
pass the test? Are we the best? No because it’s not about being the best. And now a little
bit of dating advice. Ooohlala. ‘My best friend has a boyfriend who won’t take the initiative
to hold her hand and even though I keep telling her that she can take the initiative, she
insists that “boys have to go first”. Why is it that girls think that they can’t make
a move first, like holding hands, kissing, asking on a date ect.?’ It’s like this mixed
message because we hear all the time ladies first, ladies first, ladies first, but then,
like in the case of your friend it’s like no, ladies can’t go first, then they’ll be
seen as too aggressive. Little thing called sex scripts. And I’m not talking about the
screenplay for ’50 Shades of Grey’ here. Heteronormative roles that we have culturally established
for men and women, men make the lead and women sort of follow. I think what it has created
today is umm, this environment in which it is perfectly acceptable for a girl to make
the first move if she wants to. Because these sex scripts have been recited for so long
it still feels like a bit of a transgression, stepping outside of your role, reading from
a different script altogether for a lady to say hey fella, want to go down to the broadwalk
with me, hmmm? So I think girls think that they can’t make the first move uh, because
still, of what a lot of society and sometimes even fellas tell them and other girls too.
Make a move if you care to. Just be prepared that it’s always a dice roll. Let’s not forget
to that if all the sudden women could do all the asking men would have to take our last
names. Well friends that’s all the time I’ve got for you today on Ask Tina. Like I said
I am an expert on all things feminism, men, women, dating, sexual relations. If you got
a question, if you want to pick my little brainhole about something, uh you know, you
can put them, bopbopbop. And don’t forget to hit the thumb.

90 thoughts on “Ask Tina: Why can’t girls make the first move?

  1. Your answers are on point! And thank you for an answer to when people try and degrade feminism with the term 'humanism' etc 🙂

  2. People generally avoid rejection.  The social norm is that guys make the first move.  Girls generally will wait for guys to act first because they assume that guys will act if they are interested.  Guys generally act if they are interested because they do not think girls will do it first.  I think that if girls acted first, things would on average move along faster because guys often do not know if girls like them or not, which leads to more waiting by both parties before making a move.

  3. I was the one who asked my boyfriend to be my boyfriend. I also refuse to make the guy pay for everything on a date. I'll pay for myself, and if I can afford it, pay for him too. I know when I don't have money, he'll do pay for me on some other thing. Gender rolls in a relationship just holds it back, as well as in life.

  4. After asking some of my friends they said they rarely make the first move because they are afraid of making it too easy for the guy. They said that if a guy doesn't really have to work for it than he will most likely to with the flow when a girl makes a move, whether he really likes her or not. So I guess it's kind of a way of guarding yourself.

  5. I don't like doing the first step in this culture of "false modesty" (doing things that you don't want to do because you can't/don't like saying no), i am really carefull with bringing people in uncomfortable situations. This is furthered with our gender roles, i like it if the female makes the first step, because this generally means she really wants it as it is culturally uncomfortable for her and if she oversteps that discomfort she has probably a good reason.

    (i am obviously vocal about that in my relationships.)

    I never! want to have sex with a girl who says yes but is actually not ready for it.

    I feel like a lot of women are not at peace with their sexuality, it seems like a conflict laden burden for many. So now my rule is that i need to be together with that women for at least ! several months to a year so i can evaluate her comfort with this topic and that our emotional relationship can grow together with our "physical relationship".

    The bad side of this is that i incapacitate the women and don't respect her decision to have sex early on, (there might be women who can convince me that they can deal with it) because i don't trust her own outward evaluation of her situation.

    i never want to have sex with a person who will regret what we did…

    sex can be something really emotional, especially for women in this confusing modern culture…

    but i know one thing i won't have sex with a girl who is drunk, culturally, emotionally(broke up with friend) or intoxicated…

    or am i going too far?

  6. Remember the "dropping of the hanky?" Girls and women give men permission to pursue them all the time. Direct eye contact and a smile work wonders. A gentle, properly placed touch signals guys that it's okay to be a little more affectionate. Even our cats and dogs can read body language and facial expressions, and all the guys I've dated are infinitely smarter than house pets.

  7. Oh, we can (and 5 years later I'm super happy I did because there was no way he was making that first move)

    It helps that I watched a ton of Japanese romance anime as a teenager, because girls confess their love to boys like, all the time, and it just seemed like something normal when I had guys I liked

  8. My boyfriend agrees with what the feminism movement stands for, but he refuses to call his self a feminist because he says it's "misleading." And when I asked him what he meant, he said that the term "feminism" applies that the movement is only focused on women. I tried to explain to him that feminism is called "feminism" because it was original a movement started by women aimed towards women's rights. My boyfriend's reason for not wanting to be called a feminist for the sake of just the word is an underlining problem that I notice with a lot of people- mostly men. Why is the word it's self so off-putting to people? To me it almost comes across as if people don't want to be associated with anything that sounds like it has to do with women.

  9. could you look into the subject of women and how they consume porn? I don't think I've seen an episode about this on this channel. I am particularly interested in how women have started consuming more and more gay porn (male on male is quite popular and there is a whole industry of manga comic books on this theme in Japan that western women have stated consuming a lot of as well, in addition to slash fanfiction and MM erotica) I find it a fascinating phenomenon and would love to hear your take on it

  10. What you said about feminism was completely incoherent, and very dismissive of the question. If you think a question is illegitimate or not framed well, simply don't include it in a segment.

    Males are physically attacked, ostracized, and ridiculed for not conforming typical gender expectations. It's possible your viewer is struggling with that and not just being frivolous.

  11. Can people please reply; does anyone else have a fetish for someone liking them?

    I feel like if if think a female is attracted to me then it's so much quicker to start being attracted for them even if I had 0 attraction for them before I thought that way.

  12. I agree that social norms say guys make the "first move" I think women have always taken different sorts of subtle first moves that give the average guy the courage to try his more overt first move. This is not to deny it's not uncommon that guy can be uber clueless & proceed & the woman wonders where all "that" came from…

  13. As a girl who has recently tried to foray into the girl dating girl scene i have found it rather tricky to overcome these sex scripts. I was with a girl and we were all cosy and close and i really wanted to kiss her, but i have never been an initiator so i found it super nerve racking and didn't end up doing it. still kind of annoyed about that but next time i'm just going to go for it!
    I mean i may probably chicken out again but still, its the thought that counts… right

  14. Back in the day I was teaching at an all girl's High School that held an annual "Sadie Hawkins Dance. (For the non dinosaurs in your audience that was reference to the old comic strip Little Abner where women could propose to men)
    I was always bemused to see these young women sweat out this new social situation. I grant this was decades ago but then or now putting yourself "out there" can be stressful.

  15. I was kind of expecting the work of Jackson Katz to get mentioned in the response to the first question. He is a feminist AND a leader in male-oriented anti-sexist activism. He has produced a few educational films (i.e. Tough Guise and Wrestling with Manhood) and goes around giving talks about men, feminism, and gender violence. He is the first name I would think of regarding a "Male Progress Movement."

  16. You should talk about all the super weird stuff associated with weddings (brides being given by their father to their husbands, taking last names, wearing white dresses, the awkward garter belt tossing, etc.). I would be interested in how you, as a feminist who is also engaged, deal with and feel about all of these different traditions.

  17. Hey Cristen! I love your channel! I have a friend that I am close with and share a lot of the same views on the world with. A few days ago she said something along the lines of "You cant be a feminist and care about your appearance because you are giving in to gender norms" when I was talking to her about a makeup I liked, and how I was thinking about shaving my legs. I got kinda huffy and tried to explain makeup-shaming, but she wouldn't have any of it. I love my friend, but I need her to understand my point any why I got mad. How!?

  18. It should all be mutual. Don't give me none of that feminism BS. Everyone should use common sense and be considerate towards all humans as much as we can. As for rapists, racists etc.. they're all parasites in this world and should be put to trial. The end

  19. I never understood why people don't get both parents' names. Here on Brazil this is how we do it, and I think it's really better this way, logically, not because of equality or something like that, although I can see how many people may think of it as one little step for equality.

  20. I know this is stating the obvious, but very men would reject if a woman makes the first move. They'd be more than glad, and that kind of confidence is very attractive. Yes, even men find confidence attractive in a woman! 😛 And to pin some history/religion into this to show it's not just a western modern progressive or transgressive act, the first wife of the Prophet Muhammad (Peace Be Upon Him), Khadija asked him for his hand in marriage first. She was possibly the first feminist in islam, being a powerful businesswoman, 15 years older than the Prophet, and not taking guff from anyone. Still an inspiration, not just for muslim women.

  21. I honestly think a girl making the first move in today's age has less to do with society's expectations and more of woman not wanting to out of fear of rejection. Lets be real being rejected sucks so if you can make the other gender do it so you can avoid it all together then why not. It forces men to be open to rejection and gives woman all the control. Also there is a money issue. Proper etiquette says whomever asked a person on a date should pay for the date. So if men do the asking then they must pay for the date and woman get free meals and entertainment like movies concerts etc and that stuff adds up. Just look at the "ideal" marriage proposal. A man spends 3 months of his yearly salary on a ring then has to get on one knee and beg the woman to marry him.

  22. I love you!! I always show your videos to my friends, you're ma partner in spreading the feminist movement 😀

  23. Why is it that Feminist and MRAs both fight for equality and equal rights while focusing predominantly on their own gender (which is fine) but any mention of MRAs are completely shouted down as misogynists by media or protested sometimes violently whether they are or not. While feminists who have openly misandric views are upheld in a good light?

  24. The two male based movements would be MGTOW and the MRM. (PUAs are something else entirely, so is GamerGate, and Meninism is literally a joke)

    MGTOW is more of a philosophical approach that at it's core is about rejecting the social expectation that a man's value is measured in female approval. This has mixed results. Best case: it's just confident men who've figured out that desperate doesn't work. Worst case: contempt, fear, and hatred of women as a result of largely removing them from one's life. Not really sure how these guys are really gonna help anyone but themselves.

    MRAs are… more legislatively minded. They tend to focus on actual laws that violate the rights of men specifically. The right to body integrity as per circumcision, the right to opt out of parenthood post-coitus as per child support vs abortion options, etc. Although the male suicide rate is one of their big issues that's more nebulous and cultural.

    Neither really blends that well with mainstream feminism. The oppression / privilege narrative doesn't play a part in the rhetoric. Hence why they don't use that. Generally their stance is "no one is oppressed, it's a collection of independent issues" and forcing that narrative just creates an artificial "us vs them" that helps no one. (Well there IS the small subsect called "red pill men"… but those guys are legit consipracy theorist nutjobs, but every movement has their SCUM spinoff.)

    At its best: MRAs are just a male biased version of feminism filling in the percieved gaps that the female bias of feminism is overlooking. With all the good and bad that comes with the comparison. They're a really good foil to picture how your opposition might percieve feminism and what kind of rebranding might help sway that opposition.

  25. The person who makes the first move is NOT in control.
    Women like to have all the control.
    So they don't make the first move.

  26. Thanks for answering my question… Tina…!! The only thing I still have a problem with is that for me feminism is striving for equality with a female point of view, and I really want to strive for equality, from my male point of view. That's why I was thinking of a separate parallel movement that engages men, and redefines what being a male is from our perspective. And as you saw from my last comment stack there isn't a concrete idea on what men should strive towards, or even what a male is in society. Again thank you for answering my question, and you got the name correct. It's way more unique than Mike, and I think Ariphon Marathon is going to become a thing!!

  27. women want equality only when it benefits them, so of course they want the guy to make the first move because making the first move requires a person to risk their pride and embarrassment

    a lot easier to just sit back and wait for them to come to you without you risking a thing right ladies?  so much for equality…

  28. I tend to go for shy guys so I just accepted that if I was going to like shy guys I was going to have to make the first move. I did not care one bit what anyone else thought I just got right in there started a conversation …. I paid for half of our first date just to let him know how I do things. And he ended up asking if I was a feminist and I was like "yeah why?" and he was like "well because I share those views" and let me tell you he can go off on a feminist rant with the best of em… even to his own dad on occasion lol 
    Now we are getting ready to go on a vacation together and move in together and I'm glad I made that first move!

  29. I fully agree with your response to the "men's movement" question. Us adult white males should join in with other feminists to help lift up the voices that need to be heard the most, not enclave ourselves to make our voices heard more.

  30. My boyfriend is super shy. I keep having to make the first move. It made me insecure at first because it felt like I was the only one invested in the relationship but now I understand him better. We're very happy!

  31. i usually always take initiative to do things first, for example, telling someone that i like them. But now i kind of stopped because it's like 'unattractive.' I don't know what it is with me showing my feelings first and why it seems to turn off the guys. It's like the guys i attract find it almost intimidating for a woman to make the first move, because they think it's 'their' role to do it first and if u take 'their' role, then u kinda ruined everything. It's more special when a guy does it first, you know what i'm saying?

  32. I wish I could get more ladies to make the first move on me, I'm tired of the pressure of making the first move, I wanna be able to just wait and say yes or no.

  33. MGTOW is the safer route forward for men. But I do agree it's not best for society. The genders need to figure out how to work together. Until life becomes extremely hard and people start thinking about society as a whole. It's only going to get worst…

  34. Tina is such a fun character but I am always confused about how exactly she and Cristen differ. Why do people ask Cristen some questions and Tina others? Do the two have different opinions on certain topics?

  35. The worst advice my mother ever gave me was 'boys find girls who are more forward intimidating'. It literally just hurt my confidence, not helpful.

  36. Could you do a video on why men commenting on eomens tattoos and people touching someones tattoos is a violation of their body autonomy? A coworker says i am overreacting and treating people with a genuine curiosity badly when i get upset about it all because "a few people are creepy".
    On a daily badis i have people pull on my clothing and body to look at tattoos so im also interested in know why it is perceived as ojay to do that to tattooed women.

  37. Could you please talk about vaginal health? I, for example, have a weird situation where I had a crazy ulcer that tried to eat through all of my tissue. Now they think I have vulvar dystrophy. I have so many friends with endometriosis or inverted cervixes. If you could just talk about this and resources we could use? I've been pretty emotional through all this and thought I'd reach out.

  38. @Stuff Mom Never Told You – HowStuffWorks 

    From my perspective, there is one major problem with modern Feminism. The man-haters who fly the Feminist flag are loud, and many. It seems as though they are the vast majority.

    A few ways that men don't have it easy: false rape accusations, crippling fear of sexual harassment claims or worse if you are unsure that they are interested in that kiss. If you play it safe and don't go for it and you should have (or if you do and you're wrong), usually the best outcome is the tale of the event spreads through the social scene. These are TWO examples.

    I don't buy that feminism is for men and women. The 'helping us helps yourself as well' rhetoric seems to only cite issues men face from a FEMALE perspective. I've never heard that feminism will help men find equality in retroactive birth control options. You posted a video about it. But you didn't think about it from our side. Instead, you cited laws, and rulings that fit your agenda. What if Feminsits cited laws and rulings one hundred years ago, and then shrugged?

    But that's okay. It's not necessary to give thought to these silly things. You're a paragon of social justice. How could other views have merit?

  39. I used to always wait for the guy to make the move but it was out of fear of rejection more then anything. I'm not discounting what "Tina" is saying and I do agree with her. I just don't think it's always the case. Honestly now I somewhat prefer to make the move first because I find the men I'm attracted to be the sensitive types who are usually too shy to make the first move.

  40. When my husband and I first started dating I was the one to ask him out. He said that he was thinking about asking me out (after we had already started dating) but apparently I didn't want to wait to start dating. lol.

    I'm really glad I did because knowing how shy my husband is I wonder if he would have asked me out. If I hadn't made the first move I may have missed out on the best relationship I've ever had.

  41. I actually like this guy from work but I don't know how to ask him out on a date.  My brother tells me to just ask him while my friend says not to because the last time she took the initiative with a guy he thought she was putting out.  So I'm really confused on what to do.

  42. If the person I choose to marry wants to take my last name that's fine. Depending on how it would sound, sure, I'll take their last name. Screw society norms. If it sounds better it sounds better.

  43. The best part about making the first move is that you get to decide who you wanna be with, instead of just waiting for someone great to walk by, witch might take forever. "First movers" feel more independent. The feeling is worth the risk of getting your heart crushed.

  44. I think it can be too easy to become emotionally charged with a cause. My goal is to be a respecter of persons.

  45. Girls don't make the first move because they can't. Yeah, there are anecdotal exceptions, like female inventors and females who can take responsibility for their own mistakes, but making the first move would violate the mating ritual that is wired into the female brain.

    It's why lesbian couples experience "sex death," and it's why, 20,000,000,000 years from now on the planet Xeno in a galaxy far, far, away, green, three-eyed girls will sit immobile, waiting for green, three-eyed boys to ask them to Qvxplkjbf dance.

  46. Tina, how many frogs does a girl kiss on average before meeting her prince?

    You mentioned the old way "men lead, women follow" and I immediately thought of the saying "sperm chases egg."

    You want to talk about equal rights? Do you know how easy it is for women to go to jail for face-slapping a man these days? Sure, let's all cheer for progress until more ladies lose that special level of innocence and amnesty they've held onto for so long. Feminism will bring more women into prominence, and bring more down with harsh judgements. Ladies and gents who defend the old ways of gender and dating will meet the most resistance at this point I think.

    "Equal doesn't mean fair and fair doesn't mean equal." -said an awesome professor one time

    Dwell on that, Tina.

    BTW, been watching your show a long time. We are so close in age, it's so stimulating hearing a person my age find humor in navigating all the grey areas of life like you do. Wish you and yours all the best.

  47. You put down the humanist term comparing it to racist and sexist but in that line of logic shouldn't feminist = misogynist? The -ist or -ism suffix simply denotes belief or, in some cases, profession. Hell, in your line of logic dentists would be against teeth. I love most of your points but this one I respectfully disagree.

  48. I'm dying. Cristen, you are, by far, my new favorite youtuber. You and smoothiefreak. Your 'Tina' sounds like my grandmother as she would sound if she'd moved to the UK and, living in London for the past decade, began to occasionally use British vowels. I'm going to continue my binge watching of your channel now. You are officially my inspiration for future #channelgoals 😀

  49. My mind is mostly just stuck on that bit about feminism advocates for LGBT equality too. I think most people (including me) lump them into two separate issues, because they have two separate names. But they are connected, they are allowed to be connected, and that link is entirely valid. I feel like no one else is acknowledging this (at least in my experience) and they really need to.

    Spread the word, guys.

  50. It takes a lot of courage to take the initiative and make the first move, I think guys should be very understanding of women who do this since guys have to go through it so often and know how it feels. Sadly, that is not always the case.

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